scriptygoddess

1 | smeg

May 13th, 2004 at 7:16 pm

I've been blogging my thoughts on this all day. I think MT is going to lose a vast amount of it's community support now. Sites like this simply won't be paying for the licensing, and while the software won't stop you using it, it being illegal will!

2 | SS

May 13th, 2004 at 7:23 pm

A friend of mine, Donzilla, (http://equivocalcatharsis.com) has developed his own PHP based content management system that doesn't need an SQL backend. It's still in development, but he plans on releasing it on Source Forge soon. You might want to drop him a line. Equivocal Catharsis is currently powered by this yet-to-be-named blog software.

3 | Dave

May 13th, 2004 at 7:36 pm

I use WordPress and have loved every single minute of it. While, I would personally never make a switch back to MT's way of doing things after being wooed by WP, I don't feel it's very much for beginners or those that are not comfortable with PHP. However, with 1.2 just on the horizon it might be a little more n00b friendly. Your site deals extensively with PHP so you would might like WordPress that much more.

I just converted my girlfriend's blog from MT to WP this past weekend and no kidding, the whole upgrade process took less than 10 minutes. From creating the new blog to importing the MT entries to making it live. Since you only edit one file (well, maybe two if you want to tweak the comments section a bunch), there is never a need to rebuild or wait for your post to show up. That sold me instantly.

If you want more reviews from MT > WP, you can check out the WP development blog.

http://wordpress.org/development/

Towards the bottom (mid-April) are quite a few people who have made the switch and wrote mini-reviews of it (myself included.)

4 | Elaine

May 13th, 2004 at 7:49 pm

I am recovering from a double whammy: my web host disable my Movable Type installation yesterday. Then, when I went to Movable Type to download the MT 3.0 I first read the license and decided it was time to move to WordPress.

I must say, WP is much easier to install than MT. Haven't done any customizing yet, but it doesn't look more difficult in theory.

5 | orangeguru

May 13th, 2004 at 8:01 pm

Well looks like that SixApart has finally succeded to alienate most of the hardcore MT community?! For months there where mixed messages, bad communication and at the end a very high price tag. I guess Textpattern and WordPress seem the likely inheritors of the MT throne. Even the new blogger will pick up many refuges … my the scriptygoddess with us all the way …

6 | Lisa

May 13th, 2004 at 8:04 pm

I switched to textpattern a few weeks ago and have been thrilled with it. The way it works is somewhat different to wordpress and was more my style.

Of course, if you *wanted* to fork out $150.00, MT is, imo, not the way to go; expressionengine is much better for the money.

7 | Blinger

May 13th, 2004 at 8:10 pm

I'll probably switch to expression engine since I was already looking for a way to have users self-register and start a blog.

however several users over at http://forum4bloggers have been moving to textpattern in anticipation of MT 3.0 and are very happy with it.

Two thumbs down to MT 3.0

8 | tubedogg

May 13th, 2004 at 8:13 pm

If you're looking for free alternatives, you might check out http://www.b2evolution.net/ b2evolution. I just discovered it this afternoon but after trying the demo, it kinda seems like it could be MT2 on steroids. I'm definitely going to be downloading and it trying it out somewhere.

9 | Jennifer

May 13th, 2004 at 8:45 pm

I am also using Textpattern, and I love it. I finally have a program that seems to think the way I think; it's still in "gamma" release – somewhere between beta and 1.0 stages – but it's already incredible, and improves with every release.

I hope to be a viable part of its community as it grows.

10 | Jennifer

May 13th, 2004 at 9:32 pm

I think my biggest issues right off the bat with WordPress and Textpattern are they are designed for ONE blog. (Unless I'm doing something wrong). One of my complaints about this whole thing with MT is the restriction on number of blogs/authors. I have (at last count) 8 blogs – two of which are hardly updated, and I could probably say goodbye to. But both my husband and I use it – so that's a minimum of two authors and six blogs. I need something that can at least do that for me to make the jump.

I should probably add (I might even revise the post to say this). I'm not against paying for my content management software. I'm just not quite thrilled with the feature list of MT. Sure there's a lot that it does – but there's a lot that it DOESN"T do. Actually – that's what most of THIS blog has been about. MAKING MT do what I want. And usually in very kludge ways because I perfer to code in PHP.

I would HAPPILY pay, even what they're asking, if it would do all this on it's own. I have to WORK to get MT to do what I want – and for that I'm asked to pay a premium??

11 | Michel Valdrighi

May 13th, 2004 at 9:51 pm

If you're the kind of person who likes to tweak their blogware (the site's name implies hacks and modifications?), I guess you would be happy with the upcoming 1.2 version of WordPress.
It brings a new plugin API, support for unlimited custom fields, user-definable permalinks, and a bunch of new stuff. I gotta insist on the plugin API though, as it will make WP more extensible, and invite more would-be hackers to provide plugins. Perhaps we'll see WP plugins from you in the future?

12 | Lisa

May 13th, 2004 at 10:08 pm

Just as a side comment; textpattern can replicate several blogs, in the way that it handles sections. I had 8 blogs for MT and do it in one in txp; but I will grant that it's not for everyone, expression engine is expensive but it's a beautiful, extensible and long term system. Just overkill for a lot of people =)

13 | Kevin

May 13th, 2004 at 10:09 pm

This is a sensative issue for me, too. I want to pay them. I truly do – I just need a little more horsepower and the pricing is (more than a little) steep. The bang to whack factor is way out of line.

I'm going to say something that I never thought I'd be saying, so don't throw rocks just yet.

Blogger is looking like a decent alternative.

Wow. I need a drink.

14 | Christine

May 13th, 2004 at 10:20 pm

WordPress will soon have a multi-blog option; I believe Matt is already beta testing it and if so, I am sure he would be happy to send it to you for a trial run.

You know, it's an amusing day when people are left saying, "Blogger is looking like a decent alternative."

I think I need a drink too.

15 | Chris DiClerico

May 13th, 2004 at 11:13 pm

The two issues for me seem to be the same two issues for many other people. 1 author and 3 weblogs for the Free version is a joke. My site, with super low viewership, is mostly fun for me and my friends. But, I have 13 authors and 5 different blogs in the installation. According to these pricing options, I am looking at a $600 Commercial version to run my bullshit website?!

Forget that. I’ll either do without the upgrade, or switch back to Blogger (new and improved).

Don’t get me wrong, I am perfectly willing to compensate Ben and Mena for their fine work. There’s no question about that. I have always felt like I was “getting away with something” by using MT for free. $600 is rediculous though. They have really got to reconsider these stupid prices. They are begging for mass migration to Blogger or other free-er tools.

16 | Hashim

May 13th, 2004 at 11:34 pm

If they would have just included all those features the blogging community has been dying for…

So it's a platform, not a feature release. But now users will have to pay for many of the features the developer community will make, which pushes the price up further

17 | Frank

May 14th, 2004 at 4:16 am

I've used Nucleus, pMachine and the new Expression Engine from pMachine. I cannot rave enough about these.

Drupal is in a whole other class, some major semantic web intelligence built into this complex Content Management System with multi feature Weblog as a module.

If you are after the flexible easy to use publishing system, take a look at the Expression Engine, it's definitely become my favorite. Unlike the others I have listed EE does cost $199 but the code is open to modification and there is a great development community.

18 | George

May 14th, 2004 at 4:23 am

Have a look at Pivot. http://www.pivotlog.net. It's free, and a lot of Dutch webloggers are using it. Not me though.

19 | Jinjiru

May 14th, 2004 at 4:31 am

I was using PMachine (Free and Pro version) and B2Evolution. Like the second one more.
I recommend visit this site and try as much blog engines as you can
http://www.opensourcecms.com/

20 | Sue Crocker

May 14th, 2004 at 7:33 am

Jennifer, I think you'd like EE (ExpressionEngine). It's in php and you can write plugins for it to do all kinds of things. From the main site:

Hassle Free Trial. New users, we offer a hassle-free 30 day trial. For only $10.00 we will install a full-featured demo version of ExpressionEngine on our servers for you to try. And if you buy it, we will apply your $10.00 to the purchase. Or you can download the 14 day trial for free and try it on your existing hosting account.

21 | nando

May 14th, 2004 at 8:00 am

WordPress is good enough to substitute MT, but b2evolution is great too and I just tested pMachine and it works quit good. All three excelent choices. Open source. Real web.

22 | Jennifer

May 14th, 2004 at 8:14 am

I actually downloaded and attempted to install the expressionengine trial last night – but something went wrong (bad sign) – but it was late, and I was rushed. I'm willing to give it a few more tries.

I think I'm at the point where I really want a lot of "power" features – and while b2 looks very cool – I think expressionengine may be better for me… then again – b2 may be a more "fun" community to join and write scripts/hacks for as I'm guessing it probably has a wider appeal.

I still also have to give WordPress a fair try. I kinda stopped when I realized it didn't do multiple blogs. Textpattern was in the same boat. I got used to being able to blog to several different blogs on one login – but I may have to get over that…

Basically there's part of me that just wants to get expressionengine and have this super powerful ready-made feature-rich CMS – and then there's another part of me that wants to join in a community and become PART of the development of a new PHP!! based blog tool… so I'm torn.

23 | Blinger

May 14th, 2004 at 8:31 am

I installed Pmachine free and it took only 3 minutes including the time to ftp the files to the server. It looks good – the only issue I have is the menu is in non-scalable tiny font which is very difficult for my bad eyes.

I am impressed enough though that at the end of June when I really have time to play I am99% likely to install Pmachinepro.

I'll probably go give B2Evolution a look-see now.

24 | Michel Valdrighi

May 14th, 2004 at 8:42 am

nando: just to set this straight, pMachine is not opensource, unless its license magically changed overnight.

Jennifer: re:multiple blogs, we're working on this. It won't be in 1.2 but possibly in the next features release.

25 | orangeguru

May 14th, 2004 at 8:55 am

This thread is amazing – seems to me most people were more then eager to get a better MT3. Now they are loaded and ready to jump for another solution.

So far I can 'see' four trends:

1. the overkill geeks who want a proper solution, with all the bell and whistles – most of these a hungry for more then just blogging. Most of these run big or multiple blogs.

2. And the small solution bloggers – who just want something simple.

3. PHP based systems – there are so many hacks & tools out there – even for MT – that people want to stick to that language.

4. Community – the MT community has a pretty solid reputation of sticking together and releasing great additions. Many people – including me – are afraid of loosing that support … I am is there a Scriptygoddess for WordPress or Drupal?!

Just my 0.02 euro.

26 | Tudy

May 14th, 2004 at 9:38 am

Ok this will probably make me sound as ignorant as I am.. but what about the MT I already have installed? These changes do or don't apply to it? I was also really outdone that we free users werent even allowed access to the MT forums I depend on so much..or was I just not able to find that? Somehow I feel it is a real slap in the face to those that have used and promoted MT for years…yeah we used it for free as it was offered and was even set to buy the commercial version..but those prices are ridiculous, my blog is a hobby not a career.. like Jennifer said.. she and others are the ones that make it work. I think someone has let somethings go WAY to their heads.

btw.. Im look for some help installing one of the above content managment systems.. if anyone knows of someone that would do it for less than a small fortune please email me.

27 | heather

May 14th, 2004 at 10:56 am

Orangeguru asked about the community for Drupal or others… "Many people – including me – are afraid of loosing that support … I am is there a Scriptygoddess for WordPress or Drupal?! "

The Drupal community is quite active, and encourages people to submit modules. They use a CVS system for managing the software changes- afterall, it is a true open source project. So in terms of community of developers and support, it has been steadily growing, and quite supportive.

You can see examples of people using Drupal for blogs, like: http://urlgreyhot.com/
He offers his templates for download, AFAIK

In drupal-speak the plug-ins are called modules:
See: http://drupal.org/project/releases

Also, James Seng is offering a Drupal for MT Bloggers:
http://james.seng.cc/wiki/wiki.cgi?Drupal_For_Bloggers

It's not MT though, it's heritage is more like the group communication software that runs http://kur5hin.org/

But it could easily run a single blog. One of my fave personal blogs in Drupal is: http://culturecat.net/

I was just recently testing out MT again, but afterall – I think I like the Drupal motives and methods better, and when I get a spare minute, I'm going over to Drupal.

And for the not-for-profit I work with, I was thinking of using a Wiki anyway for CMS… (especially because bending a blog to be a CMS is not much fun at all)
http://pmwiki.org/ is a wiki with CMS focus.

oh! and various drupal users offer help with installation services. Not sure on pricing!
http://drupal.org/services

- heather at drupal

28 | tubedogg

May 14th, 2004 at 11:36 am

Tudy – this change *does not* apply to the version you currently have installed. Also, the support forums are still there, they just buried the link. You can get to them directly at http://www.movabletype.org/support

(I think that's the right URL off the top of my head, but mt.org is down again so I can't be sure.)

29 | adamg

May 14th, 2004 at 12:05 pm

I've just set up a couple of Drupal sites. There are some wicked cool things about it – it's way more than just a blogging tool, it's open source, has a very active development community, has a nice plug-in architecture, an excellent taxonomy module (imagine MT with sub-categories!) etc., etc.

BUT: If you've come to love, or at least appreciate, MT-style tags, Drupal will give you serious headaches. There is now a Drupal template set (or "theme") that lets you embed tags into an HTML (actually XHTML) template, but there's only like seven or eight of these tags, so if you want to do anything more advanced than "put page title here" and "put comments here," you're going to have to dig into the underlying PHP.

Installation is a bit more complicated than MT's because there is, as yet, no real installer app – you'll have to run a bunch of MySQL queries to set up the databases (not hard if you have, say, phpMyAdmin or some equivalent, but still …).

30 | cindy

May 14th, 2004 at 12:21 pm

Here's another vote for Drupal. I just switched to it and am very happy. The setup is definitly more compliated than pMachine but well worth the added features.

31 | Alex

May 14th, 2004 at 5:09 pm

There will be an exodus of MT users moving to TXP, WP and/or Blogger. Most importanly MT/6A will loose their bread a butter: MT plugin developers and 'power' users like yourself. An large community and availability of a large number of easy to install plugins were No.1 reason for picking MT over other blog/CMS tools.

I switched to WP when MT 3.0 beta came out and the whole deal with TypeKey started to take shape, it didn't look good and it was time to jump ship since I would have to do it eventually. Beforehand, I tested WP and TXP following are a few thoughs that may help you make the right choice:

WP – My current tool of choice. Very easy to use and install. PHP. GPL. Very fun community, responsive developers and fast development pace. 1.2 brings a very nice plugin API. Multiple blogs are possible trhough multiple installations (WP is MUCH smaller than MT) and Matt says that the next version of WP will have multiple blog support out of the box. Otherwise has all MT features and more (some that would require a plugin in MT).

TXP – Very very nicely done tool. Development is somewhat slow, since Dean is developing it himself. Multiple blogs are possible, they are just called sections. No trackback and a few other features are missince, since well TXP is by Dean and for Dean. Lately development really picked up and he is planning to have a commercial version out the door in the future (free version under BSD like for non-commercial sites will be available). A very nice, although a much small community.

32 | Sue Crocker

May 14th, 2004 at 6:49 pm

Well, the EE folks have announced 1000 free licences for persons who are coming from another publishing tool.

Act Now and Get ExpressionEngine for FREE!!

Tired of the limitations of your current publishing system? Think you deserve unrestricted features with the price of admission? So do we! If you want to make the switch to the most powerful web publishing system on the planet, now is your chance. We're offering a free copy of ExpressionEngine to the first 1000 users who contact us!

IMPORTANT GUIDELINES: You must have been actively running your site on another publishing system for the past 6 months or more. The software must be used for your own, personal, non-commercial use. Commercial or business users do not quallify

Make the switch now! Start by registering at pMachine.com (if you are not already a member). Once you do, please email switch@pmachine.com with the following information: Your username (so we can create a download account for you), your real name, email address and the URL of your site so we can verify that you qualify.

Once we have given away 1000 copies we will introduce a competitive upgrade offer to those who missed out.

So get switching!

Note: We reserve the right to publish a list of names of people who have participated in order to prove we have given away 1000 copies. We will not publish your email address or any personal information in accordance with our privacy policy.

33 | orangeguru

May 14th, 2004 at 7:53 pm

Expression Engine – great offer – just downloaded my switch copy. Hey SixApart: learn to think different!

34 | Lisa

May 15th, 2004 at 2:22 am

Just one thing to note is that EE has a renewal fee to get upgrades (can run it forever without the fee; but if you want upgrades..) It's in the FAQ:

**
Do I have to buy a new license every year?

When you purchase a license you own it forever. You can use the license as long as you want. Included with your license is access to our download area where you can download free updates for one year, and to our support forums forever. After one year, if you want to continue accessing the download area for continued updates you can purchase a yearly renewal for $19.95 (non-commercial license) or $39.95 (commercial license).
**

IMO that's very reasonable.

35 | Jennifer

May 15th, 2004 at 6:52 am

Lisa – exactly. I have no problem paying REASONABLE prices for QUALITY software. In my opinion there have been very few "new features" added to MT over the past year… two years(?)- a lot of behind the scenes stuff for plugin developers maybe – but that's not new features – that's just the opportunity for me to PAY for new features – or scum off plugin developers for as long as they're willing to do THEIR work for free (while 6A makes the money off the foundation)

It's just rediculous. Laughable. Especially when you consider that there are other CMS out there that are more powerful and more reasonable. OR still in development (IN PHP!!! YAY!) and share-support-ware. I'm dizzy from the options available. In fact – I may go with a few at first just because I think it'll be fun.

36 | Glenn

May 15th, 2004 at 8:01 am

Just a quick note for those wanting to move from MT. Both Pivot & Nucleus are free (GPL'ed) and support multiple authors and multi-blogs. Nucleus in particular has a whole bunch of interesting plug-ins.

NucleusCMS: nucleuscms.org
Pivot: pivotlog.net

37 | tiiana

May 15th, 2004 at 2:08 pm

I usually got from blogging tool to blogging tool just so that I can learn of the differences. So when I heard that MT 3.0 being out, currently using WordPress after using MT 2.65, I wanted to check things out. That is when my mouth dropped. They want $$$. Money that I wouldn't mind giving if they were asking for some type of overly bloated software. However,they are asking for money for something I can get elsewhere either for free or for a reasonable price. A over a year ago, I purchased a license to run PMachine for only $45. I think that's not asking too much. I can understand the Trotts wanting to make money off of their product. But if they want someone like me to buy it, it should have something that will make me jump at it. By either giving me something I already have for free or a product that doesn't give me as much for a lot, that is something I'm not willing to do.

38 | Lisa

May 15th, 2004 at 5:11 pm

*nods* Jennifer; but it's not only that it's reasonable it's that its known. The cost is out there; as far as I know there is still no information if the licensing fee for MT is yearly or lifetime?

At least with EE it's a known factor, out in the open and clearly communicated. That was my unhappiness with MT and why I switched (before MT 3.0 went public) to textpattern several weeks ago.

Bleh.

39 | Ken

May 17th, 2004 at 1:28 am

If your looking at CMS's Xaraya (www.xaraya.com) is very nice.

40 | alicson

May 17th, 2004 at 7:32 pm

i'll be interested to see what you come up with, which handles multiple blogs and has room for good growth and shows stability. i'm a bit up in the air as to what to do now as well. i was really really looking forward to MT3.

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